Speeches by Kane.

“Can you expand on the focus and effort part of that? Reminding Departments to do it is one thing, but it is the focus and effort, and the plan. You have been reminding them for a while, but that is not resulting in action that the NAO can evidence. I am more interested in drilling down into what you are doing and how y…”

“Paragraph 1.33 of the NAO Report says, “Departmental annual reports use different definitions of what constitutes consultancy spending, which may or may not be based on the Cabinet Office definition for consultancy”, so the NAO is not assured that this is happening. You have something that you are telling Departments t…”

“I imagine that one of the problems is that there is not a consistent definition of “consultancy” across Government. I know you have said that you are working on a revised definition of “consultancy”. What is stopping that happening? What is stopping one definition of “consultancy” being used across Government?”

“Is that the target to reduce the spending, as opposed to the target to adopt a consistent definition? What target are you referring to?”

“I am going to push this a little more, Cat, in that we have had this conversation before about what technology will do in the future, but we are trying to ensure that we can measure your progress against targets with what you have now. From what we are hearing from Rebecca, it is a bit of a laborious get-together with …”

“That sounds like the future, though, rather than the present. Getting from the current labour-intensive, manual process to the wonderful new world of AI doing it for us requires a journey, so where are we on that journey?”

“Just to bring all that together, the impression I am getting, not being a data specialist, is that the data is not as good as it needs to be, but you have put processes in place to ensure that it is changing. It seems like you are doing it in a very labour-intensive way if you are having all of these check-ins. What ar…”

“I know that my colleague Blake was going to ask you about that, so I will hand over to him now.”

“Just on a point of clarification, Cat, when Sarah Olney asked whether you knew how much you are spending, you said yes and disagreed with the NAO Report. Paragraph 1.33 of the NAO Report says, “The data available on Departments’ consultancy spending are inconsistent and vary from one source to another… This means the G…”

“You are talking to them, so if someone has come in on a freelance basis, you would give them the same opportunities to feed back on how they are feeling as you would to any other staff member?”

“Why?”

“It is carrots and sticks, yes.”

“I want to talk about AI for a minute. We have talked a huge amount with you about this gap in many different ways. The NAO Report, Use of artificial intelligence in Government, from autumn 2023, said that the Central Data and Digital Office “estimated the opportunity for productivity gains by analysing the types of tas…”

“Just picking up on that point, earlier we were talking about the definition of a consultant and the best way to feed data into the system. It strikes me that your Department within the centre, Cat, must occasionally be quietly screaming into the void when you put this best practice out and permanent secretaries are not…”

“Lastly, we have talked about the difficulties you have with your workforce, your consultants and even the definitions. For 50 years, workforce, consultants and contingent labour have been the three parts. AI is now becoming an extra part of the workforce. You are bringing in an incredibly disruptive and powerful fourth…”

“Is the concept of AI as a potential form of consultancy going to complicate your mission to have a uniform definition of consultancy services? We have talked about AI as a technological solution. We have not really talked about AI in any of these sessions as a consultancy solution. I suppose this is the place to explor…”

“Maybe we are going to build our own AI models or software platforms. If you are bringing in Microsoft or any of these other companies and buying in AI, is there a difference between buying in an AI service and buying in a consultant? Will AI become, in effect, a consultant, as we would see it expressed in your playbook…”

“It is more about whether you are evaluating the potential productivity gains from AI in staff, consultants and contingent labour. If AI is not being used to make gains across the board, one part of the workforce could bear a bigger brunt than another as we go forward. You might have to get back to us on this one. I wou…”

“I am just trying to get to the bones of it. If I was one of your big consultancy firms, I would be doing everything I could to put into my contract that you are not able to use my data to get rid of me in the future by automating it through AI. There is potentially an in-built protection for consultants in a way that i…”

“The words “aspiration” and “ambition” have been used a lot. Ambition and aspiration are normally good words to hear, except when we are talking about an audit function. James, how are you ensuring that the word “aspiration” cannot just be replaced with “sticking my finger in the air and making the best guess I can”? Yo…”