Speeches by Kane.

“I will leave you with more of an observation than a question. This Committee is happy to take statements like that as long as the evidence is there to our satisfaction that the statement is underpinned by the processes and that they are robust. What we are seeing here is that, when it comes to the robustness of the thr…”

“Good morning, everyone. I am looking at paragraph 13 of the NAO Report, which identifies four main causes of the programme not progressing as intended. It states that several Government bodies, including the IPA, the Cabinet Office, the Government Internal Audit Agency and the Treasury, concluded that “NS&I had a weak …”

“I want to ask about culture. Paragraph 3.5 in the Report says, “Programmes also need the correct culture and leadership”. Here is an interesting line from NAO colleagues: “In our previous work on major programmes, we have observed good news cultures presiding, where decisions are not made and disagreements between stak…”

“That was a really good example of good news, and possibly good news culture, in your answer. So can I put it to you that in that line they were talking about NS&I, and that there is a good news culture that is causing problems? And maybe I can just get you to reflect, if that is the case, on how you would take that, ho…”

“Just for complete clarity, you take the point that you have mentioned a lot of additional people and additional sources who can help to achieve that, but one of the key people who can do that is you yourself.”

“James, may I ask you exactly the same question?”

“You mentioned the leadership development programme. You have mentioned various other internal things that you are doing. Can you just speak briefly about how they are going? I am less interested in the mechanics of what they are doing and more interested in your reflections on what positive change you are seeing that i…”

“It does. I have one point on a line in paragraph 20, which says, “there remains a lack of clarity about the role of boards, and NS&I staff think that decision-making can be slow and hierarchical.””

“Moving on to something that is about information, paragraph 9 states, “Given the way NS&I report Programme performance, we found it challenging to identify spend to date, and forecast spend for the remainder of the Programme.” Matt, what are you doing to ensure that the programme produces the correct management informa…”

“What is that figure?”

“What are you doing to ensure that the data exists to produce better cost data for your next business case?”

“How are you setting milestones for suppliers and working them into the plan, if that integrated plan is not quite there? How are you judging how suppliers are doing?”

“And the milestones are all being met?”

“Yes—I take all of that, but, again, it goes back to this general point about a good news culture. This Committee does not read press releases. We are not interested in that layer of what the media pick up. We are looking at what you are saying and making sure it is underpinned by evidence. You have just told me that yo…”

“You mentioned the staff satisfaction scores going up, yet the programme is not delivering what it should be. How do you reconcile the disconnect between how staff are feeling in their work and the outputs that are being measured, and what you are asking them to do?”

“Okay. Can I ask a couple of questions about governance? We have picked up on parts of this. I might be asking you questions that have already been answered, but I just want to do this for clarity. I know, James, that you have been talking about some of that and looking in at NS&I. Let’s talk about NS&I internally. Dax,…”

“Can I ask a quick follow-up on contingent labour? I am recalling a question that we asked of the BBC director general when it came to using freelancers and other things. When you are looking at reducing the workforce because of AI, you are going to be able to look at this across consultants, permanent staff and freelan…”

“I would probably leave you with the observation that I absolutely get that you and others will be confident within the Department. I am less confident that the NAO is going to be, based on the language that is being used and also the line of questioning. It is more of an observation that it is important that we all hav…”

“As a final point from me, considering all of the variances between all of this data and this approach, you have indicated that you are confident that you will know when you are going to meet your targets to halve the spend. Are you confident that the NAO is going to agree with you? Are you confident that this Committee…”

“When will you have it fixed? How long will that take? I am pushing this a little because it is unusual for me, when I hear these discussions, to feel like I am not getting to an answer. I am getting that you are aware of the problem. You have raised it repeatedly with different Departments, and they are either not gett…”