Speeches by Hayes.

“I draw attention to what Sarah Dineley, the head of international at the Crown Prosecution Service, said in her testimony: “I will start with how we rebuild relations with key allies.”––[Official Report, Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Public Bill Committee, 27 February 2025; c. 38, Q41.] That implies that rela…”

“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, Mr Stuart, as I should have said earlier. Is the hon. Gentleman saying that the proposed sentence for the facilitation of small boat smuggling and criminal activity is too high? Did I hear that correctly? Please do correct me if I am wrong.”

“Does the hon. Gentleman agree with what Rob Jones, the director general of operations at the National Crime Agency, said in his oral testimony last Thursday? He said: “We are not looking to pursue asylum seekers who are not involved in serious and organised crime. That is not what we do. This is about tackling serious …”

“This is my third Bill Committee, and so far I am really enjoying it. In all three Bill Committees, I have sensed something interesting; my understanding of what the Conservative party has been does not quite coincide with what it is today. It feels peculiar to hear Conservative Members asking for this role to have so m…”

“I am wondering about the intent behind that question. Is the hon. Member concerned about the availability of prison spaces?”

“I can. It says: “If only a few hundred asylum seekers were sent to Rwanda each year (as suggested by the Deputy Prime Minister and the Home Office’s modelling) and unauthorised arrivals had continued at rates similar to those seen in 2022 and 2023”— the paper was published in 2024— “then the probability of a person cro…”

“Q Thank you for all of your work. In April 2023, you wrote to the then Home Secretary requesting information about children accommodated in hotels. Seven months later, when you received the information, you then said that it was seven months past your deadline and that the quality of the information itself was deeply t…”

“Q My question is regarding the asylum decisions backlog that the country faces, which we are now starting to move through. As a consequence, of course, some people will have their grants rejected and others will have them accepted. Where the grants are accepted, what would you say to anybody who claims that that could …”

“Q If I reframe the question, then, have you seen any evidence to suggest that it may be a pull factor? Sarah Dineley: There is nothing that I have read in any interview provided by a migrant to suggest that that is a pull factor. Jim Pearce: I have a personal view, but I am speaking on behalf of the national police chi…”

“Q My question is for Mr Williams. In a previous panel, I asked Dr Walsh whether he thought it was difficult to make emphatic assessments of the fiscal burden of migration, given the quality of the data available. You authored a February 2025 report that makes broadly the same points about some of the quality gaps. I wo…”

“Q We hear that, because the so-called Rwanda deterrent never actually happened, it is hard to assess whether or not it was a deterrent, but in a Q&A you published on 25 July, Dr Walsh, you said: “The deterrent impact of the policy would likely have depended on the number of people sent to Rwanda.” You estimated the…”

“Q Part of the aim of the Bill is to minimise opportunities for crossings, which involves targeting the criminal smuggler gangs that are enabling small boat crossings to take place. Do you agree that enforcement activities against those smuggler gangs will have a deterrent effect—that enforcement activity has value in i…”

“I forgot the name of it. The “Here To Stay?” report? Karl Williams: Yes, that is the one. That is purely about the fiscal impact. There is some analysis, which I can go into in a minute, on the broader economic picture in the previous report, but this report was more tightly focused.”

“Q Would you feel cautious about Members of Parliament emphatically assessing that there would be a fiscal burden of £234 billion over the lifetime, as your report concludes, based on your concerns about data, but also the fact that consideration of some of the counterfactuals I listed—and there could be many more—would…”

“Q Professor Coleman, would you on a level accept the description of being a eugenicist? David Coleman: No.”

“Q In that case, I will use the rest of my time. Are you familiar with the—”

“Q My questions are speculative. First of all, are you familiar with a report by the Centre for Policy Studies called “Here to Stay?” Professor Brian Bell: Yes.”

“Q Could you comment on that? There is a headline figure that says that, in its analysis, the fiscal cost of those who might be granted indefinite leave to remain in the next four or five years would amount to £234 billion. Professor Brian Bell: That is a speculative number. It is actually extremely difficult to work ou…”

“Q I am going to smuggle in a very quick question. Could you comment on the validity of the comparison between the Australian offshore processing immigration approach and the Rwanda scheme? Are they actually comparable, and do you have anything to say about the efficacy of the Australian approach? Professor Brian Bell: …”

“Q So it is not entirely appropriate to compare the Australian offshoring approach to the Rwanda scheme? Professor Brian Bell: I would not have thought so.”