Speeches by Caliskan.

“In order to achieve better value for money for local authorities, we would be encouraging them to do just that—to procure outside very expensive areas?”

“That is what is happening, isn’t it?”

“I am going to focus on procurement. Local authorities are encouraged to procure better and to get more value for money for the taxpayer, but what that really means, particularly for London authorities, is that they are being forced to look way outside London to procure—if they are lucky—in units of hundreds sometimes, …”

“So, Ms Healey, what is your message to local authorities—”

“Presumably, and hopefully, to borrow too, because while it takes a number of years to be able to add to the overall supply of housing, there are good examples of where local authorities have procured—they have bought property, essentially, whether it is in their own area or outside, and they have borrowed to do that. M…”

“Thank you, Chair. I declare that I am a vice-chair of the Local Government Association, having been a council leader for a number of years before I entered Parliament earlier this year. Thank you to the officials for joining us. I want to focus a bit more on value for money, which is why this Committee is looking at th…”

“Yes, and I am sure that you recognise that the point that I am making is not that people should be left out on the street; not only is that the wrong thing to do, but it goes against the statutory duty of the local authority. Given that it is £1.8 billion, taxpayers often remark that that money would be better spent on…”

“And not using taxpayers’ money.”

“Because even though the money might not come directly from central Government, the burden is on local authorities.”

“Do you also recognise that the term “temporary accommodation” is in many ways misleading? Thousands and tens of thousands of people across this country are placed in what is called temporary accommodation—but for years on end. More recently, because of the housing challenges you spoke about, they are not even being pla…”

“ Yes, but we are not talking about people getting fed up because they have been on the phone for so long and cannot get through. What I want clarity on is whether the two pilots that Sir Jim has referred to—we are left with the impression that they are not being pursued as an idea—are different from the fact that …”

“ Sir Jim, building on what you have said, I recognise that parts of the service are completely paper-based. The papers refer to something like 22 million items of correspondence that were sent to HMRC, which is an extraordinary number given that we are in 2024. It is only slightly less than the number of phone cal…”

“ Finally, I absolutely recognise that there has to be a shift in the way customers interact with big organisations. When we have a year-on-year increase in the number of people needing to interact with HMRC, of course the organisation needs to find better digital ways of supporting them so that they are not just l…”

“ It sounds a bit like you are blaming the customer.”

“ The idea that people are hanging on for hours with HMRC just for the fun of it, when they could actually go to the digital services, is not quite accurate, is it? People are struggling with the digital services, which is why they are turning to the telephone. There will be some instances, of course, where people …”

“ May I go a bit further on that? It is about the technological pressure that might exist if there are too many people in the queue, which may be more likely at different times of year. I am getting the sense that that technological instruction, if you like, to your software has not changed—that it is still the cas…”

“ When I speak to constituents who tell me that they wait for hours to get through, they do not say, “It’s not ideal.” They say, “It’s appalling.” More frustratingly—I am sure you will recognise this, because you will have had feedback from those who are trying to access the services—they are given no war…”

“ Do you think being cut off after waiting 70 minutes is good or bad customer service?”

“ So it is a decision that HMRC has made. It is a customer service decision to cut off the phone calls, as opposed to your technology not being sufficient to be able to keep people on hold.”

“ Thank you, Chair. Sir Jim, I just want a bit of clarity. You referred to the two pilots. Is that different from the fact that after 70 minutes, people were cut off from the phone lines?”