Speeches by Western.

“At the last session, Dr Hudgell gave some evidence that suggested that there seems to be an extraordinary ratio between the original offer and what might ultimately be paid. In one case it was £4,000, which went up to £133,000. Why are the first offers so ridiculously low? Surely there must be some sensible, obvious, p…”

“It is striking, isn’t it, that the original budget was £1.2 billion, although it has been increased, and that lawyers have cost £268 million? That is quite a striking proportion of the total budget.”

“I think it was armed up when you inherited it.”

“At the Wyn Williams inquiry, former Minister Kevin Hollinrake said it would be a mistake for Government to arm up with lawyers—an interesting observation for someone now in opposition as opposed to Government. Do you agree with him?”

“Mr Thomas, what specific instructions have you given to your lawyers to make sure that sub-postmasters are getting fair and fast offers, and what specific metrics are you applying to ensure that swift and fair process is being achieved?”

“Minister, a moment ago you mentioned requests for information and how, on many occasions, you are seeing these requests coming in around 36 days ahead of the 40-day cut-off, and then this resets. If we are trying to speed up the process, do you believe that there would be merit in having a reset of fewer than 40 days, …”

“And that could be bespoke to the individual?”

“Minister, you rightly said that you want to speed up the process, which is clearly complex for many of the applicants, and that you are open to ideas. Would there be merit in having some sort of online calculator? I am thinking of pension credit and many other forms that the Government have introduced. It would simplif…”

“So those forecast figures might be given to DBT via Post Office or directly?”

“So that is for this financial year. Mr Watts?”

“I have a final question, which really goes back to one of the Chair’s first questions about billings. I guess this is a naive question based on my limited understanding of how law firms work, but you said that you had no idea what the billings would be related to this work for the coming year; how can you resource what…”

“Who would it be in the Post Office, do you think?”

“So they weren’t involved. It was just—”

“Thank you for that. I understand the points you are making. I do not necessarily agree with them, but I am interested by them. To an outsider, it would seem that you had skin in the game: you were disposed to the client—the Post Office—in the first instance. At that time, what did the Minister say about your involvemen…”

“Mr Watts, Herbert Smith Freehills were involved in the battle alongside Womble Bond Dickinson in the original Bates litigation. You then went on to assist in the design of the Horizon shortfall scheme. It is a curious situation that you should have gone on to do that. In fact, the previous Minister, Kevin Hollinrake, s…”

“I welcome my right hon. Friend’s comments. The more I hear about this area, the more I think that this Government have inherited a wild west from the previous Government, so shocking is the situation in children’s social care. Will she agree to meet me to talk about a particular issue with a foster carer in my constitu…”

“It slows the process down.”

“That is interesting. This is a question for both of you. Mr Hartley, I think you suggested that DBT should give sub-postmasters the benefit of the doubt at the evidence-gathering stage. Does this actually happen?”

“According to the financial redress data, I think DBT is still outstanding something like a couple of hundred claims. When do you expect them to be submitted?”

“Are you surprised that it is not a strong client?”