Speeches by Campbell-Savours.

“Saving money.”

“Could something be done to strengthen their independence and to move them further away from political control?”

“I have one more question, Chair, and I think this is a different approach. I think that throughout this there has been consensus that people want to see a reduction in wasteful arm’s length bodies and more accountability, but there are some arm’s length bodies that perhaps have been set up for a more wholesome purpose,…”

“I just wondered whether there was any sense that perhaps that was making it difficult to bring people back in-house.”

“It is one of the issues, isn’t it, that arm’s length bodies are perhaps paying what are closer to market wages, especially when the arm’s length bodies are carrying out technical functions?”

“Thank you, Chair. I must admit that at times this inquiry has sometimes felt a bit hypothetical. We start with the landscape, but we have often not drilled down. I feel that right now we have a witness who has looked into some of that detail. The ambition in looking at this of the Government you were a Minister for was…”

“Earlier, the issue of pay did come up. I understand that one allure of creating an arm’s length body that carries out functions that may be carried out elsewhere is the ability to go outside the civil service pay structure. To what extent was that an impediment to taking functions back in-house? Have you any recollecti…”

“I will take the hon. Member’s word for it that those Humble Addresses did not contain those words, but if you take, for example, the Humble Address on Lebedev’s appointment to the House of Lords in 2022, it did not have to contain those words for the Conservative Government to use national security grounds not to provi…”

“Apologies, Madam Deputy Speaker; I am obviously out of practice on interventions. Is the hon. Lady aware of that convention?”

“I have a question for the whole panel, and I say this as a former parish councillor, town councillor, district councillor and unitary authority councillor. I am frustrated that the system does not have any sanctions. A system with teeth is what everybody seems to want. Is there not a risk that when we give it teeth, mo…”

“Do you have a similar view to Ms Wright, in terms of what that investigating body might look like as a committee of lay members? Should it be at a national level or could it be at a regional level?”

“I believe the LGA guidance is that councils should consider doing that, so to not adopt it in full is within the scope of what the LGA envisaged. These are not people making a Frankenstein’s monster; this is something that you have promoted as the LGA.”

“The Ethics and Integrity Commission has said it sees a role in helping these codes develop. Is there value in a national body like that doing this? What value do you think it can add? How could it work more closely with local government to help?”

“In terms of carrying out investigations, potentially sanctioning, if there is sanctioning available?”

“Just to clarify, you mentioned that in some instances councils had adopted the LGA’s model code of conduct, but not in full because they had made their own amendments. Do they all relate to this issue of scale?”

“If I could pick up on that last point with Ms Wright, I have read in various places that there needs to be scope for some local variation, but to be honest, I am not quite clear I have any examples in my mind of what that local variation looks like. I know this might be something that Councillor Boughton wants to pick …”

“Yes.”

“That was a sanction under the old regime, was it not?”

“It is something that came out of the much earlier reforms, and a question as to whether we should return to it. Should failure to declare pecuniary interests be a criminal offence?”

“I should just add that he was cleared by the adjudication panel at the end of that investigation.”