Speeches by Garnier.

“I thank the Minister for his comments. We agree that the law needs to be updated to reflect current circumstances, and it makes sense to ensure that companies that have not made pre-2016 resolutions are not unfairly penalised. We broadly support the update to the law because it corrects an important imbalance. However,…”

“I am reassured by the Minister’s comments and appreciate that he wishes to make the measure work in the interests, geographically, of local government or local authorities as they undergo a transition through the reorganisation of local authorities. Obviously, this provision needs to work concurrently with that process…”

“I beg to move amendment 244, in clause 5, page 6, line 6, at end insert— “(2) In the case of merger of schemes for local government workers, the Secretary of State must consider the geography of scheme areas and ensure these areas align with strategic authority boundaries before implementing the merger.” This amendment…”

“On new clause 31, as we have heard, the local government pension scheme in England and Wales has reached a record surplus of some £45 billion, which is 112% of funding levels, as of June 2024, with some estimating that it will rise to more than 125% by the end of 2025. Despite that strong funding position, no measures …”

“I thank the Minister and wish him many happy returns. I hope that he has a happy birthday. We are satisfied with the Minister’s comments. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.”

“I beg to move amendment 245, in clause 2, page 3, line 39, leave out from first “in” to end of line 39. This amendment changes the definition of local investment to remove the reference to the benefit of persons living or working. This amendment runs closely with amendment 246. Amendment 245 changes the definition of l…”

“I am reassured by the Minister’s comments. I beg to ask to leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.”

“That is fine. It has been a few months since I last participated in a Bill Committee, Sir Christopher, so thank you for your advice. We are not proposing to press this amendment to a vote, but I would be very grateful if the Minister could respond to my points and undertake to take them away and consider how advice can…”

“I have just one question for the Minister. How are the shareholdings to be decided? Will they be determined based on the size of the investment, and how will the Government decide between councils having shareholders or contracting with asset pool companies? That is my only comment.”

“It is great to be starting what I hope will be quite a quick canter through today’s work, Sir Christopher. The Opposition welcome the broad grain of this entire Bill; it seeks to do a lot of very useful things in the pension industry across the UK. We have some contentious points, but those will not come up today. Rega…”

“Q For trustees, the arrangement will be slightly different if it goes into a big pool, but to what extent do you think local authorities, if they are going to see mandation, would be keen to invest into their local areas, to support local investment? Councillor Phillips: Local investment is difficult because, again, I …”

“Q64 Thank you for coming to this afternoon’s session. Councillor Phillips, I will start with you on the big argument about mandation. Obviously, these are reserved powers, which will not necessarily be used. Local government pension schemes will not be forced to go into things that they do not want to, but in the last …”

“Q I move on to value for money, something which, in the broadest sense, everybody seems to agree is a good thing, but I want to pick up on a couple of points. In the evidence given to us by Michelle Ostermann, she made the very interesting point that one problem we have in the UK is that we have not derisked our pensio…”

“Q Could you expand a little on the technicalities of how that would work? Obviously, the trustees are there to represent the members, but they are merely a small board of individuals. If you take something like the British Telecom pension scheme—I do not know how many people are in it, but it is perhaps tens of thousan…”

“That is very helpful; thank you.”

“That is very helpful; thank you very much.”

“Q There was an interesting intervention yesterday from the Reform party about local government pensions. I know that is not necessarily part of what we are talking about now, but they made the point that 50 basis points is way too much to charge for assets under management and that it should be 10 basis points instead.…”

“Q Well, there is one, which I would like to test both your opinions on. The Government point out that the reserves are on the public sector balance sheet, and therefore are treated as an asset of the Government, which is obviously offset against Government debt. Do you think that is a justifiable reason not to— Roger S…”

“Q Also, similarly on the equity point: with defined benefit pension schemes, as I mentioned a bit earlier, if you have a deficit, that then appears on the balance sheet. The behavioural outcome of that is that if you are a trustee or from the host company, you would want to avoid the risk—rather like with the BT pensio…”

“Q That is interesting; I will go and have a think about that one. Both of you manage annuity funds. For the record, I have had a chance to meet representatives of your organisations and have had long discussions about this. One of the interesting points that has come out of conversations with many people and organisati…”