Speeches by Robertson.

“I thank the hon. Gentleman for drawing attention to his own Government’s promise to increase the take-up of pension credit. After the past winter, there are still 750,000 pensioners who have not taken it up, so he should not speak with any pride or seek to deflect to previous Governments when his own Government have wi…”

“I am grateful to the hon. Member for giving me the opportunity to talk about means-testing— I did not expect to have that Government argument made by a Liberal Democrat Member, but so be it. There is some sympathy, from across the House, for the argument for means-testing the winter fuel payment, but I assure the hon. …”

“The flavour and mood of this debate have been somewhat strange. I expected to be in a debate facing Members on the Government Benches who were at least showing humility, and who at least, in the words they chose, showed that they regretted the decision, even though they reluctantly supported it. But that is not the moo…”

“I thank the hon. Member for finally giving way. He has won his campaign to remove the winter fuel payment from Sir Richard Branson, but if I take him back a little earlier in his speech, he paints a picture of the sorry state that he claims this country was in when he took over. Just let us suppose that and run with hi…”

“Will the hon. Gentleman take my intervention?”

“The hon. Gentleman looks almost proud of the decision to withdraw winter fuel payments. He talks about taking tough decisions—can I offer him a really easy alternative? Scrap GB Energy, which does not produce any energy; do not give Mauritius money and sovereign British territory; and restore the winter fuel payment.”

“It is heartwarming to hear someone make a speech based on his principles, and the hon. Gentleman has made it clear that it is his principles that will inform his vote on this topic. Can he articulate, very clearly, what principle tells him that someone on £13,500 is too rich to receive a winter fuel payment?”

“Does the hon. Lady really think that going through Tony Blair’s greatest hits is any comfort to pensioners on £13,500 who lost their winter fuel payment in 2024?”

“They still get paid. It would suggest men should be doing a lot more because they seem to be able to retain their income and do high-intensity care. That is what the data is saying. It runs contrary to what we think or see around us.”

“I still do not quite understand why the man who provides high-intensity care is less hit financially, because you would think he is not in a job that says, “Yes, we will keep paying you, and you can do that for 50 hours as well.””

“No, I take that.”

“Will the hon. Lady give way?”

“Yes, if there is structural unfairness in that—I guess there probably is—your doppelgänger is already doing that.”

“Without us somehow explaining some of this—I appreciate this was not the purpose of your paper—it is going to be hard to make arguments to Treasury or Government as to the reasons for some of these things. A lot of your answers seem to be unexpected: I was sitting there thinking, “Really?” Young people aged 25 and belo…”

“It is not necessarily age per se. It is that people under 25 are more likely—only more likely—to be living in a household where there is another higher earner, and possibly two more higher earners. Compared to their doppelgänger under 25, most people probably have more freedom to decide whether or not to work or go int…”

“Can I ask about the difference in gender or sex as well? I thought that was quite interesting. A woman who is providing high-intensity care will have a greater financial penalty than a male who is providing high-intensity care. That is correct, is it not? That is what your data shows.”

“That runs against the anecdotal evidence that we heard earlier. There is this idea that, because it is harder to adjust in traditionally male breadwinner jobs, the man often simply does not. The woman is more likely to give up her job or go flexible. Your data runs against that. You are comparing women who are providin…”

“Surely the doppelgänger is doing that already. I take it that there could be that sort of gender gap unfairness, where women are almost preparing to be flexible in life, but your doppelgänger is already doing that. Your comparison is with a doppelgänger.”

“It seems to me that the hon. Member’s issue is not with some of the amendments, but with all of them taken together. Why does not he not back some of the amendments?”

“Perhaps I may suggest an easy decision, rather than a difficult one? The Government, instead of giving £9 billion away to Mauritius, should use some of that to support social care and charities.”