Speeches by McKinnell.

“Sorry, you say “we” retain the strategic decision making. Who is that?”

“And at that stage you will decide the new governance arrangements?”

“I think we have covered quite a lot of this. Clearly, the National Audit Office Report recommends that governance arrangements are reviewed. Bearing in mind that we have already touched on some of the ongoing discussions around this, my understanding is that these governance arrangements ideally should be reviewed befo…”

“Okay, fine.”

“Can you just explain why? What difference would the decision make to what the governance arrangements should be?”

“What is holding up the debates?”

“When will that decision be made? Or when does it need to be made so that it does not have a knock-on impact on the programme or on decisions being made?”

“So you are saying that you cannot make progress on these matters until we have had the debate in the House of Commons and the House of Lords.”

“So the motion at this stage, which you are hoping will be debated soon, is simply to proceed with phase 1 under the current governance arrangements, but to agree that the governance arrangements will be reviewed as part of, and alongside, the phase 1 delivery?”

“Who makes the decisions?”

“Could you explain what that means? What do you by something “has not come to fruition”?”

“Who makes the decision on the schedule?”

“Are you saying that if these decisions are made in—your worst-case scenario—two years from today, that will enable the timeframe you are intending to work to?”

“I have to say that sounds very vague to me. I think we need to be able to communicate that a bit clearer, because it sounds very vague, and there is lots of potential for elasticity in the timeframes in what you are saying. That is just the impression I get. I think we need to be careful. Can you give us some reassuran…”

“Can you give an idea of the timeframe in which we need to have these debates in order for you to meet the timeline you are intending to work towards?”

“Have you been given a reason why we have not had these debates yet? It is not because there is not the information to debate—is that all available and in place?”

“To follow up on that, is there a programme of works that you are maximising where, whatever happens, these things will need to happen? The principle that restoration and renewal needs to happen is fairly well established. Exactly what, how and when is perhaps less well determined, but there must be a programme of works…”

“What I am asking is, is that maximised? Is there anything in addition that could be done to take phase 1 forward, even though it has not been agreed as part of phase 1? Are there inevitable decisions that will need to be made as part of phase 2, or have you maximised all of that in phase 1?”

“It does feel like we are just delaying some of the more difficult aspects of this, and that runs the risk that the next seven years turns into longer because we are putting off some of those things. I do not really understand why we have to spend the next seven years deciding on the governance arrangements if there is …”

“But isn’t it an accepted principle that that governance arrangement would not really work for delivery? Or is it an accepted principle that it needs to be reviewed to find a better governance model, or the optimal governance model for delivery?”