Speeches by McKinnell.

“Can I slightly go back to the previous question, but in the context of what you are saying there? How do you know whether you are maximising the impact of this without clear targets? It is very hard to measure. Obviously you are saying that lots of good work is going on, with lots of people working hard and lots of sho…”

“That is helpful.”

“What interventions do you feel have worked best so far in unlocking land? I suspect that this is for either Joanna or Alison.”

“A range of criteria over what period of time?”

“Thank you. You are giving really thorough and quite reassuring responses, but I fear that this is incredibly complex. I appreciate that these things are not simple, but is there not a risk here? These homes need to be delivered locally by local contractors—local builders—and we could have such a complicated system that…”

“Okay; the benchmarks are really helpful.”

“It’s okay.”

“What is the timeframe for that?”

“Could I just ask you to avoid acronyms? I think we had CPO as well, and people watching may not know what these things are.”

“Just a bit more detail on how they are measured.”

“No, that’s fine.”

“What you are saying is very encouraging. The challenge is that it also feels a little bit nebulous. As you are explaining, it comes down to judgment, individual projects and having that flexibility. I can totally understand the advantage to that, but the flip side is that you could get to the end and achieve something …”

“It is an honour to follow the right hon. Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison). It is clear that when it comes to defence readiness, there is much on which we can all agree. Let me also—before he leaves the Chamber—pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith), an…”

“At this stage, are you still expecting all arm’s length bodies to join the shared service clusters?”

“I did not really understand the explanation of why it is more nuanced for the Treasury than for other Departments.”

“I want to ask you about the detail of the arm’s length bodies and joining service clusters, but in respect of the answer you just gave, to what extent have you looked at international comparisons and how other Governments do this? Internationally, all Governments must be transferring to new digital services. What examp…”

“Okay, that is helpful to understand although it creates some uncertainty as to the original intention and what is now developing. That goes to some of the points raised about how much this is ultimately going to cost and the outcome, given that the parameters seem to be shifting. I appreciate that some of that might be…”

“What do you mean by heavy lifting?”

“What timescale are you judging that against? This is a long-term transformation. Are you talking short, medium or long-term value for money? How are you judging that?”

“What do you mean? Why should we not underestimate it?”