Speeches by Johnson.

“No, I am not. Schedule 8 Transfer of HSSIB’s Functions to CQC”

“Clause 62”

““The transfer of the functions of HSSIB into the Care Quality Commission (CQC) also raises questions around people being able to trust the system and come forward with their concerns and issues.””

“The Minister has reassured us that, although it has not been lifted and shifted from the original, the amendment is a duplication of another clause. Therefore, we believe the Committee—”

“The Minister seems to be saying that her reasoning for moving HSSIB into the CQC is to ensure that actions take place in response to the recommendations. But if HSSIB outwith the CQC makes recommendations that are delivered by the provider organisations, commissioned by the ICBs and overseen by Ministers, and then the …”

“Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.”

“My understanding is that, in the past, HSSIB has provided services to not only British health services but overseas health services, which were, in some cases, charged for that service, as it is a world-leading organisation. Why would the Minister not want that to continue?”

“Will the Minister give way?”

“Another question is: how will this work in practice? The Minister told the House that combining the functions of HSSIB and the CQC will be”

“My hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight East was talking about the importance of the perception of the safe space, in relation to people being able to come forward, and the fears of whistleblowers. Does he agree with me that it is not just this perception that causes potential whistleblowers to worry? If they read …”

“My hon. Friend is making a very important case about the importance of the perception of independence and the safe space actually being safe. There is a risk that people feel that they will be hounded or—”

““to the benefit of both.”—[Official Report, 1 June 2026; Vol. 786, c. 958.]”

“On pages 8 and 9 of the Dash review, Dr Dash talks about this. She states: “Recommendations are…focused on inputs, rather than outputs or outcomes, and fail to…balance…risks within organisations and across systems…the existence of so many recommendations causes considerable confusion for staff. They result in more clin…”

“The impact assessment speaks of”

“I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, but I think this comes to part of the problem. When producing a list of faults—of things that are wrong with the service—and saying, “We need to improve the culture; it needs to be better”, we need to ask, “Okay, but how? What will be the deliverable, measurable way of …”

“My right hon. Friend will be aware that it is not the only thing that the CQC is being asked to take on. It is also being asked to take on the regulation of event healthcare, which is another new function for the CQC, all at a time when, as he says, it has its own difficulties to manage.”

“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That answer was quite shocking, really. The pause before it and the reaction was remarkable. The purpose of HSSIB is to investigate without fear or favour, and to enable people to come forward in a safe way, but if it was folded into the CQC, as the regulator, and the problem was the…”

“How sure will people be that they are responding in a safe space? How willing will they be to speak when they know that in the same breath they are also reporting to the regulator?”

“The other question is more fundamental: if HSSIB is rolled into the CQC, what happens if the HSSIB unit finds a problem with healthcare that is caused by the CQC failing to properly regulate or properly inspect? In the Committee’s first oral evidence session, I asked the chief executive of HSSIB how that would work in …”

“The hon. Gentleman is right. When someone comes forward, they need to have trust in the system. If they think that coming forward will harm their job or career, or perhaps their colleagues’, they may be more reluctant to do so. There is a difference between a mistake and a reckless act. If people behave recklessly and …”