Speeches by Gardiner.

“Tell me about soot, or what the posh people now call black carbon. We used to call it soot when we unloaded the coal from the fire.”

“I do not know if it was you, Ruth, but the Green Alliance wrote something called “How much action is in the UK’s methane action plan?” Could you summarise what it said?”

“Yes. In fact, this Committee in its 2010 hearing said that the cost was between £8 billion and £10 billion. Now, the updated figure we have is a £20 billion to £27 billion cost to the economy as a result of those health impacts. Given that you agree with the UKHSA on the 29,000 to 43,000 figure—and I am not asking you …”

“Thank you very much. On indoor air pollution, you talked about a French example in response to Ms Denyer, and you said they were adopting a little-by-little approach. As part of this Committee’s recommendations, rather than asking the Government to take a big bang approach to indoor air pollution, I was struck by what …”

“I wanted to come on to that, so that is a nice segue. The environmental indicator framework shows changes in the estimated emissions of five key pollutants. Tell us about the other emerging pollutants that we could push higher up the priority level.”

“Yes, but if we were saving the billions that Professor Clift wanted to put a nought on the end of, it might pay for itself. Ms Lockwood, in written evidence to the Committee, it was noted that domestic combustion is the second largest contributor to primary PM2.5, and wood burning is a significant contributor to that. …”

“Professor Clift, tell me about scale. You have given us some of the detail, but the UK Health Security Agency has said that we are talking about 29,000 to 43,000 premature deaths a year. Would you corroborate that?”

“Ozone, O3, yes.”

“If we make a recommendation like that, the Government will come back and say, “Yes, but we have improved this with the eco-designed wood burners.” Pray tell us how eco those eco-designed wood burners are. Are they 450 times worse than a gas boiler? Is that what you will tell me?”

“Of course, you talked about the in-utero impacts in your opening remarks. Explain to the Committee what it is about these ultra-fine particles that means they can affect even your baby in the womb.”

“That sounds to me suspiciously like the DEFRA consultation on domestic wood burning. Of course, it has not proposed a phase out of wood burning in urban areas, which is what you and the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health have proposed. It has simply proposed labelling and information. Again, crystallise this…”

“Sorry, Ms Legge. If the Chair allows me time, I will come to you as well. Professor Clift, you talked about the ageing process. The 2023 Imperial College study specifically talked about cognitive decline and dementia. Can you elaborate on that? That, up until recently, has not been factored into all the morbidity and e…”

“But you are the Forestry Commission guy here, aren’t you?”

“That is very helpful—thank you. Finally, Mr Tubby, the Forestry Commission has three principles that you operate to: management, production and conservation. Do you believe that the Forestry Commission has got those in the right balance?”

“Great. That is really helpful; thank you. We understand that a large amount of timber plantations on ancient woodlands are due to be harvested over the next five years. Mr Tubby, could you tell us how you expect those sites to be harvested and replanted, and what environmental impact you think that will have?”

“I understand the security within the scheme. I am more concerned about when the land is sold. Because it is a personal contract, there is no obligation on the new landowner to continue and deliver that, and there is no security of sequestration of the carbon in perpetuity.”

“At five and 15 years.”

“Where to start? Dr Weatherall, perhaps I can start with you. You talked about the importance of financial incentive. I think it has been very clear from the panel that we have an asset value and, if you like, a natural capital value. You suggested that there might be small grants available to incentivise private landow…”

“You have those thresholds, as it were, for the PIUs and WCUs.”

“In terms of the scheme itself—putting ancient woodland to one side—what recommendations should the Committee make to ensure that these projects do not die with the landowner, as it were, or when the land is sold on?”