Speeches by Gardiner.

“I have a short final question. A company might choose to say, “We will use the 0.1% of profit rather than the 1% of turnover.” We know from bitter experience that companies are able to use vertical integration to manipulate the profit that they show. Are there any measures to combat that?”

“Because people will be listening, IPLC means indigenous peoples and local communities.”

“Can I push back on that? The burden of proof is not on the companies to show that they did not use DSI material; under the Cali declaration and in the Cali Fund, it is on anybody who wants to say, “Oi, you used DSI to get this new drug or new process.” It is very difficult for somebody to point the finger at a company …”

“May I say that I hugely recognise the amazing work that went in to get us as far as we have got? I am not trying to undermine that in any way; I am just pointing out that we have a heck of a lot of problems still in here, and this is far from yet being a success.”

“Which Government, then, is going to say, “We now have something from Cali that says that we should contribute 1% of our profits, or 0.1% of our revenues, to the Cali Fund. We are going to push our pharmaceutical and food production companies to do that, which means they will be at a competitive disadvantage to another …”

“Thank you; that would be really helpful. Let me come back to DSI and Dr Lockhart. What has been preventing pharmaceutical and food production companies from helping indigenous peoples in the Amazon or in the Congo?”

“Minister, I understand your position. You have given me a statement of what is happening and the current state of play. I think we all recognise that we need to properly protect marine protected areas, and that we are not protecting them by dragging a trawl net across the bottom of these areas. It is like going into a …”

“But not over all the MPAs. Only part of the MPAs is currently covered.”

“I congratulate my hon. Friend the Minister on his statement and, in particular, on the importance he places on the presumption in favour of sustainability and getting the design of developments right. My hon. Friend is a champion for the natural world, and I am aware that he is sympathetic to the need to include biodiv…”

“Yes, and principally as a result of the fact that we are getting rain in the Antarctic desert, which we have not previously had, which then causes a problem.”

“I hesitate here, but at the beginning, in your introduction, which was a fantastic introduction, I think you said that Antarctica contained 90% of the fresh water and it is 70%, isn’t it?”

“For InSync, for instance.”

“Dame Jane, would it therefore be one of the recommendations that you would like to see this Committee put forward in its report that the Government should permit that five to 10-year funding regime?”

“If you were still chairing the sub-committee, what is the one recommendation that you would insist was in our report?”

“I agree with you about being tough and robust, Mr Gray. I want to explore some of the things that you have said. On the one hand you say we are doing world-class science here, but then you said that is all historic and we should just be focusing on what to do about it. You say there is not enough money here but maybe w…”

“By consensus.”

“No. What proposals do we have now? We put forward Resolution 5 on plastics, but if we are taking a leadership role on environmental matters in the Antarctic, what are we putting forward and how are we going to implement it? We have no means, effectively, of amending the protocol until 2048 because unanimity is unlikely…”

“Sorry, Minister, that is understood. No, I was simply referring to the comment that Minister Vallance made about the impact on the UK from the gravitational impact, which was countered by the University of Delft. Minister Doughty, the UK sees itself as a global leader on environmental issues. Apart from Resolution 5 ba…”

“I was just asking for the source of the research on the shelf.”

“One more thing, if I may, Minister Vallance. You spoke about the gravitational effects of the mass of ice being lost and the impact that that would have. Research from the University of Delft a few years ago now suggested that—because this will happen in tandem with what has been going on in Greenland—the impacts aroun…”