Speeches by Gardiner.

“That would be a heck of a lot of energy used to get rid of some of the materials in compostable paper cups.”

“It certainly would send out a signal, yes; and of course, all other companies might be able to go through the OJEC procedures and apply that way, rather than just Delipac. What challenges does your company face? You said, “We didn’t know whether we had and we had difficulty finding out.” How difficult was it for you to…”

“Indeed, but what one could do, I suppose, is to regulate to at least insist on transparency, so that if the public is looking to purchase a product, then they can either go to Mr Spence and get his PFAS-free fire extinguisher, or they can go to another product that specifically says, “We contain PFAS”. They can then at…”

“You are doing a wonderful marketing job here, Mr Hirlam, but that is not the purpose of this. However, you do lead me on to something I wanted to ask you about. When Parliament procures its cutlery—we have wooden cutlery, takeaway boxes, and so on—would it not be a good idea, and perhaps one the Committee might recomme…”

“Spoken like a true Yorkshireman, if I may say so. Thank you very much. That was robust and helpful. I wanted to ask you about the way in which PFAS may be being reintroduced into the environment through biodegradable or compostable materials. We can perhaps look not only to you, Mr Hirlam, but to others to talk about t…”

“Two questions to the Deputy Prime Minister today, at Prime Minister’s question time, related to the ongoing health issues caused to military personnel from the nuclear testing back in the 1950s. I am conscious that they are talking about huge compensation payments there. Do you think it might be sensible for this Commi…”

“Mr Hirlam, and indeed all of you, may I echo what the Chair said about coming and giving evidence to us—Mr Hirlam in particular? We had approached another company that makes the plastic cups that I am drinking out of. I notice you are drinking out of one of your Delipac cups—yes, ostentatiously advertising it on screen…”

“Indeed; that would be prevention rather than cure. Dr Rajapakse, you speak as a scientist and you have been involved in this. Does incineration actually get rid of the PFAS? Does it break it down? We have been told that these are incredibly persistent chemical compounds.”

“If this Committee were to make recommendations, which we will have to, you are suggesting that there should be a principle that we should know that chemicals will do no harm and whether they are persistent. Would you recommend that we determine safe exposure levels of any new chemicals for human beings? New chemicals a…”

“Given that the EU is seeking to apply the essential use concept to regulation, how should critical and necessary use in industry be determined? In a sense, as I asked earlier, what is essential use, and how do we weigh up the competing interests? Is there a framework for that, or should we be recommending that there is…”

“Professor Depledge, you are well experienced in this area from your time at the Environment Agency; you will have appeared many times before Committees like this. When we are framing recommendations to the Government, what should our recommendations be for the approach to chemical regulation in general, and to the inte…”

“What could the UK learn from the EU’s safe and sustainable design framework? How can we avoid regrettable substitution? I know these are used as technical terms, but, Professor Depledge, can you put them in layman’s language for us?”

“I thought we had UK REACH, and that we regulated our chemicals. That was one of the most important things that we did after Brexit: we imported the REACH regulations into the UK. Dr Cloy talked about new chemicals being produced and the sub-groups that have been restricted, but I understand that no sub-groups have been…”

“You are all indicating that you want to speak. Let’s bring in Linsey Cottrell.”

“If we are going to give exemptions for something that is so persistent and so toxic, it comes down to a definition of what is essential. We managed, in a previous phase of human life on this planet, to do without these chemicals, so in what sense are they essential? Now you have all stopped putting your hands up—Dr Clo…”

“Thank you very much.”

“What is the risk to human health here? We have not quantified that yet in this discussion. We have said that there are risks, and Professor Depledge has said that PFAS are pretty much omnipresent in us, but what are the potential risks, Dr Cloy?”

“Perhaps only if the Government set those very clear regulatory targets will that way be found.”

“I want to return to the bloodletting that you mentioned earlier in the town of Bentham. I notice that some chap called Orlando Bloom recently paid £10,000 to have his blood purified from microplastics and PFAS. Picking up on what you said about specific professions, given we know that the aqueous film forming foams—or …”

“Mr Spence, I saw you nodding. Did you want to add to that?”