Speeches by Gardiner.

“There are a number of different claims about efficiency gains in the sector. How confident are you that those can be delivered?”

“I applaud what you have done on that because it has been very important in driving forward the production of SAF. S&P Global has looked at global production in terms of long-term commodities. We may produce it—it is great that you have driven that production—but it will be sold on the international market and prices wi…”

“That is interesting. We have never insisted on our oil or gas production from the North sea only being sold in the UK, despite what other political parties have said.”

“I mean efficiency in terms of reducing the emissions that are coming from the increases in technology in the aviation sector.”

“No, it is a straight question. Will you publish that data?”

“In the Gatwick DCO, you found that its assessment of a 3.4% uplift in emissions, which would have been below the material impact level of 5%, was incorrect. The Planning Inspectorate found that the scale of emissions would be such that it was likely to breach the material impact. That relies on you having some fairly s…”

“Yes, they have a combination. The second one is SAF. What is the first one?”

“You are the director for Heathrow expansion, not the feasibility of it. I think that was Ms Chowns’ point.”

“What is its primary one? If the second measure is SAF, what is the first one?”

“Yes, they have a combination. The second one is SAF. What is the first one?”

“What does the Committee on Climate Change say about demand reduction?”

“It is demand reduction. You have not mentioned it.”

“My question to you is, “What are the criteria that you use for that test?” When it says, “making best use”, according to whom, what values and what criteria? That is what I am trying to get a grip of. Every time I think, “I have something here”, it squidges out.”

“The words you have used, such as “interpretation”, balancing all these things, coming to a conclusion, make it sound incredibly subjective. You have even said, in what you have just told the Committee, that the inspector can decide one way and then the Secretary of State can take a look at it and decide another. That t…”

“Maybe I should turn to Ms Krylova. You are in charge of carbon budgets, are you not?”

“Really? Pricing is not something that you are considering.”

“You are talking about a way. You are talking about a process. I want clarity about what the things are where you would then say, “This is going to appeal because the Secretary of State or Planning Inspectorate has failed to account for this, and that was an essential criteria that should have been used as part of reach…”

“The CCC, in its most recent update this year, said that supply-side factors could constrain or enable the rollout of low-carbon technologies. It made specific mention of SAF. It said, “For emerging technologies in our pathway … including synthetic SAF … we generally seek to minimise reliance on them as a sole solution …”

“It is part of demand management. That is very clear in the CCC reports.”

“What does it mean when the ANPS refers to the balance of economic gain versus the climate budget? That is apples and pears, is it not? On the one hand, it is the jobs and the economic growth, presumably. On the other hand, it is the carbon emissions.”