Speeches by Gardiner.

“It gives you fairly biased information, or at least selective information according to the science that it chooses.”

“In the Gatwick DCO, you found that its assessment of a 3.4% uplift in emissions, which would have been below the material impact level of 5%, was incorrect. The Planning Inspectorate found that the scale of emissions would be such that it was likely to breach the material impact. That relies on you having some fairly s…”

“Dr Lane, since the ANPS was produced in 2018, we have had major pieces of legislation, such as the Environment Act for one. We have established the Office for Environmental Protection. The whole environmental milieu has changed. That is not reflected in the ANPS, is it? Are you able to take that into account and, as it…”

“The words you have used, such as “interpretation”, balancing all these things, coming to a conclusion, make it sound incredibly subjective. You have even said, in what you have just told the Committee, that the inspector can decide one way and then the Secretary of State can take a look at it and decide another. That t…”

“My question to you is, “What are the criteria that you use for that test?” When it says, “making best use”, according to whom, what values and what criteria? That is what I am trying to get a grip of. Every time I think, “I have something here”, it squidges out.”

“What does it mean when the ANPS refers to the balance of economic gain versus the climate budget? That is apples and pears, is it not? On the one hand, it is the jobs and the economic growth, presumably. On the other hand, it is the carbon emissions.”

“Ms Donkin, I have been struggling to get to grips with the whole way in which the planning of these nationally significant infrastructures goes. It feels rather like squeezing one of those stress balls, because there is nothing firm that you can really get a grip of in terms of the development consent orders. That is w…”

“You are the director for Heathrow expansion, not the feasibility of it. I think that was Ms Chowns’ point.”

“I suppose what I am asking you in terms of your leadership role with the Climate Change Committee is: what do you see as your role in driving that? Because it is a mix. It is financial. It is skills. It is getting those technologies ready, ripe and in play. Let me go back to the first question. How do you see Lord Debe…”

“When will you be publishing that data?”

“You did not answer the Chair’s question, though, did you? You told him what this month was, but you did not answer his question. Will you publish a full set of the economic data to update it from the 2018 ANPS?”

“Dr Lane, welcome. I am glad that either you or we have at last managed to master the technology and that you have been able to join us remotely. How much of a role does the transport analysis guidance play in guiding the approval of airport expansion?”

“We still have a director for it.”

“Minister, I want to turn to the sustainable aviation fuel mandate. By 2040, there will have to be 22% SAF in the mix for aircraft. That is the main obligation. It ramps up to the 2040 level. Can you explain to us what the power-to-liquid obligation is?”

“Thank you, Chair. First of all, can I thank you for the role that you performed at the Glasgow COP as our high-level champion there?. I think it was widely seen as successful. You have had the, I suppose, privilege of seeing at close hand two different styles of chairing the Committee on Climate Change with Lord Deben …”

“The Secretary of State has recently announced that we are committed to even more ambitious targets in our NDCs, and I think what we need is confidence, which the CCC is there to give us through good science about our capacity to achieve them. Are you confident that we can achieve them? If I use “the Chair” as phraseolo…”

“Well, is that simply a matter of bottle, as you put it—the confidence, the courage—or is it actually a question of ensuring that we provide adequate resources, both skills and financial, in order to make sure that we get those technologies to that stage?”

“You are talking about a way. You are talking about a process. I want clarity about what the things are where you would then say, “This is going to appeal because the Secretary of State or Planning Inspectorate has failed to account for this, and that was an essential criteria that should have been used as part of reach…”

“Yes, the ETS. S&P Global Commodity Insights has looked at the potential constraints on SAF and the potential market. It has said that the number of countries that have proposed or adopted long-term blending targets of sustainable aviation fuels continues to increase. They have done their assessment of that, looking for…”

“The SAF mandate will not apply to it.”